How do I scale a small business? Why do businesses fail to scale? We talk with Simon Severino the founder and CEO of Strategy Sprints, Simon teaches Growth Strategy at select MBA courses across Europe. He is the host of the Strategy Sprints podcast. TEDx Speaker, and Contributor at Forbes.
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Dana Dowdell 00:05
Russ Harlow 00:07
Dana, how are you?
Dana Dowdell 00:08
Good. How are you?
Russ Harlow 00:09
Great having an excellent week. Thanks.
Dana Dowdell 00:11
Good. We are joined this morning or this evening where he is by Simon Severino. He's the founder of strategy sprints, and the author of strategy sprints, which is available on Amazon. Simon, welcome to it's just business podcast.
Simon Serevino 00:30
Hey, Dana. Hey, Russ. Hey, everybody excited to be here.
Dana Dowdell 00:34
Thank you so much for coming out to chat with us. So you've been an entrepreneur for over 19 years. Tell us a little bit about your journey how you got started, how you founded strategy Sprint's what your, what your time being an entrepreneur look like.
Simon Serevino 00:52
It's tough to be an entrepreneur, there are so many things, and it takes a while. But, you know, I think it's below 2% of the people on the planet who actually are entrepreneurs. In those people, they have no chance they there is there is nothing else to do. We are utterly unemployable. And we have a song singing in our chest that song needs to sing. So I am 21 years ago, I was a consultant in a global consultancy, I was helping teams with go to market. And I did fell in love with those big problems. We would sit with the team of b&w. And they would say, how do we produce something that people want to write more than Audis? And I was like, oh, yeah, that's a big problem. And I have five days, oh, my goodness, how do we do this. And that was excited, intellectually stimulated by these big problems to solve. And I was around smart people. So we would find some solutions. And I was I was proud when we did. So this is what I did the last 21 years every day. I just solving big go to market problems with teams. That's the only thing and but year by year, the way I do it's changed. Technology's changed. And the way I do, it's changed from being in the business to gradually, every year peel myself off from working in the business. And now 21 years later, fast forward. I am the CEO of a global consultancy. I am I work on the business. And I fired myself from operations somewhere in in between on the way, which many probably that are listening right now are also thinking about or dreaming about or just doing right now.
Dana Dowdell 02:49
When you were working as a consultant before you fired yourself, was it in strategy sprints was it your own business? Or were you working for somebody else?
Simon Serevino 02:59
No, that was a global consultancy. And I was a junior consultant, consultant, Senior Consultant, project manager, Senior Project Manager principle, the like the traditional career, I think, if you want to learn something, the Learning Path is still to do it in the traditional world. In in the world where you know, where there are processes that have been working for over 1000 times. This is where you learn it. Then when you do it, like if you want to become Picasso, you don't go directly abstract, you learn first how to hold your pencils, right. And, and you learn the work ethic of of the painter. And then from there, as soon as you are able to do the work, then you can jump and give the work your expression, your soul whatever I say the song, you have a song inside of yourself. And that song needs to sing. So but first you have to learn of course, the craft, but as soon as you know the craft that might be two years, four years, six years. For me it was six years. And then but as soon as you know the craft, you are ready to do your own thing.
Dana Dowdell 04:14
Did you always feel kind of that pole to doing your own thing, even when you were working in the global consultancy firm?
Simon Serevino 04:21
No, no. And that's that's the fun part about entrepreneurship and about life in general. Right? So it is inside of us, but we don't know it. And so in my 20s I was just exploring many different things. Whereas my role is my role in front or in the back of a team in a huge team or in a small team. Am I a solo player or a team player? Am I motivated by money or status or purpose are my 20s We're a research lab. My 30s were really execution mileage. And my 40s are now scaling so on the business and zero in the business, so that was my process. It's different for everybody listening right now. But I guess the stages are similar for everybody. You need to explore what your strengths are. And this is where stuff pops up, and then you find it, you stick to it. Yeah, you pick a fight, and you stay with that fight. I called my company strategies sprints. The main offer that we have, the only offer that we have is a 90 days strategies sprints program that doubles revenue 90 days, the only book that I have ever written is called strategies sprints. Our YouTube channel is called strategies sprints, you see the logic, I did pick one fight, and I stay with it every day. I'm on six podcasts every day, today, even on the weekend. So and I, I come onto the podcast as the founder of strategie springts, Because when when you then pick a fight, then you have to stay with it and show up every day and stay coherent.
Russ Harlow 06:18
There is a lot to unpack there for sure. How did it get started for you, Simon? Like, what was there a gradual kind of, I don't know if this working with this giant firms for me? Or was it like one sudden thing or like, you know what, I'm going out on my own, and I'm gonna make this thing work. How did that happen for you?
Simon Serevino 06:41
It took me a couple of years to understand that I was not meant to be somebody who improves current systems. Basically, the thing you want to find out in your 20s is Are you here to build something? Or are you here to run something? That's basically the two questions in business, right? Because there are two people's there are the people who start something the Elon Musk's right, who say, Okay, let's do this Mars thing. And that's, that's his thing, right? And if you gave him if he would be the CFO of a company, that company would be toast. So he's not meant to run things, right? He's meant to build things from zero. And then there are people, you could say zero to one, that's their strength, right? And then there is a strength one to 10 just running things. So basically, are you You know, the visionary builder? Or are you the perfect manager? Yeah. And that took me a while. I thought, Well, I'm a manager, I can run stuff, I can run large projects. But then I started being in conflict with other in conflict with myself. I loved to do the weekends, other people didn't. And I saw some different values going on. And I sold it, I am overly invested. I was I was giving much more than I had to give. And I thought, okay, that's the way everybody does. And then I realized now it's not the way everybody does. People say, Okay, it's 6pm My job is done. And I was like, but this is not finished. And so I realized, for some reason, I'm all in. And, and people, people who run staff, they are not only they they are in appropriately. And then there are people who are all in there is no appropriate for them is their life's mission. And so I realized after a couple of years of heavy conflicts at work there they said, I think I'm so much all in when I do something, why just don't do my own thing. That was my, my thinking process. And then when I did it, so going on my own was easy. I just said okay, how many months do I need to save on the site to be safe? I had no kids at that time. So I said, Okay, six months of living costs, when I have six months, I jump it. And so I think after four months, I did it already. So I had four months of my expenses on the side in savings and I said alright, let's do it. And and then I realized in the very first year that I was meant to do that. Because year by year, well first the revenues were immediately very healthy. So and then I became immediately the bottleneck of the company, I saw people wanted to work with us on our project. So I had a huge network of people who wanted to work. The only problem with networks is they are not super committed, because they're also an other network. So it was a to lose of the cooperation. So I had to find a better cooperation. So next year, I had to solve that. And then every year, I had to solve some minor details. But it was clear that I'm doing the thing that I I'm meant to do. And I was willing to hit economic costs for that just to make to make less per year for many years until I can build something. And then turns out not even the first year, I had a loss. So it worked.
Dana Dowdell 10:54
I really appreciate you, you realizing that you were the bottleneck of the organization, I think that's a common experience for business owners, where you are working so much in the business that you then become kind of the thing that stalling the growth or stalling the scaling. So what were some things that you recognized were happening, that you were like, Oh, shit, maybe it's me, maybe I need to step out of the operations and get more on the strategy side of things.
Simon Serevino 11:26
A pharma company, a very well known one asks us, Hey, you're doing this amazing strategy process? Can you do it for us? And oh, yeah, sure. Alright, it starts next week, and it's in 71 countries. And I was, Oh, my goodness, hey, I'm a solo guy. So you know that? I can't do that. I can't. And so it was a ridiculous situation, right? You start a business? And then when you get business, you have to say no. So is it something is broken here? What am I miss it. And so that, and it's typical for professional services, b2b Professional Services, to think like agencies, like consultancies, educators, it's a typical situation, they don't think in scalable business models. They think their thing is not scalable, is just one to one customized, always bespoke. And there is nothing else, which is a huge mistake. But there are not many models that you can see, oh, it's that that is a professional service. And it's scaling, and it's high quality. So I had to learn. So I hired a coach and I said, Hey, I need help. I don't know what to do, but something is wrong here. And he says, Yeah, sure something is wrong. You are the bottleneck, we need to get you to layers above fulfillment. And as a debt sounds great, I have no idea what you're talking about. Let's do it. And then my wife says to me, but Simon, this guy wants you to not coach anymore. So you have a coaching business, and you wouldn't coach? How will your clients react? And? I don't know, we'll find out. But I think he's right. I cannot say no to these big projects. That's what I'm here to do. So I have to find the scalable way. And I don't know. But I know it's the right thing to do. I don't know how to do it. But when my coach will find out. I don't know how the clients will react. But it's clear, that is the right thing to do. So I will find out. And that's, by the way, this is a typical entrepreneurial situation, you know, what's the right thing to do, but you have no clue how to do it. And you have to find out. Most of the time I hire people to coach me or I go to staff. They that's how, that's how I operate. So and, and so this coach was very helpful, helped me systemize the business get myself peeled off core operations that took around a year. And I was out of operations. So I was not coaching anymore. And and then I told my wife, hey, it was easy. I onboard a client and say Yeah, welcome to this brand. So you will increase your sales, your marketing, you improve your operations. This is your three goals for the next 90 days. This is your coach. Good luck. And they said oh thanks Simon. Yeah, cool. Let's go nobody missed me. They felt secure. And they were here for their results, not for some egos, whoever's ego that is, they were here for their results for their journey. And they felt safe in the process.
Russ Harlow 15:15
So I'm curious over the years, was that the biggest challenge you had to overcome with you being the bottleneck in your business? I mean, there are always things that come up, you said there was at least once a year, there was some challenge you had to overcome. Was that kind of the biggest one? Or were there other big hills to get over?
Simon Serevino 15:32
The biggest was to start. When you start, it's like this blank page, right? It's huge. It's a monster. And so many anxieties, right? Is this safe? Will it work? I have to think legal, I have to think tax, I have to think so many things. So that was by far the hardest thing was just to start, then every week brought just new challenges. And so I had to solve what was hearing that week. And that was basically just this huge client says, I want you to do this huge project, and I couldn't deliver. So I had to solve that it wasn't actually complicated. It was just tough. But it was a simple thing. And I remember during the work with the coach, I was walking down the street, and I see a McDonald's. And as I'm Italian, I don't even know what it's in there. So I don't consider that good. But the business model, and the operations are for me excellence. So whoever did that was a genius in operations. And I was thinking, Wait a moment, why should that work for a professional service? Why if somebody interviews me, because the second toughest thing was to find that scalable model for my company. And I didn't find it in my industry, which I think is interesting for everybody listening, if you're trying to solve a big problem, don't solve it in your existing context. Look for a structural situation that is similar in a different industry. So if you're in marketing, look at Aviation, look at shipping, if you are in, in the sports industry, look at the entertainment sometimes. So the important thing is the structural similarity, it must be like a similar supply chain, similar complexities, similar length of the problem, similar size of the problem, but different industry. And I noticed because as a strategy consultant, I fly across industries for a living. And so I see that different people solve stuff. And then when I talk to somebody in their industry, they go like, Oh, my God, Simon, you are a genius. These ideas? No, no, no, everybody in that industry is doing this since 10 years. So just look across the industries, and you will find solutions for your big problems. Also, as you can hear, don't be afraid of big problems. Yes, you don't know how to solve them. But just you know, trust the process, you will explore you will find. And so for me, the moment was I passed by McDonald's, and I go wait a moment. If somebody interviews me, Simon, what do you do in Week Zero in week one, in week two, in week three, and I just tell them, and they write it down. That can be an online course, that online course I can give to my colleagues. I can't even charge and then it's a certification program. Wait a moment, I got a scalable product is the same quality. I can coach them weekly. And that's immediately what I did. I created an online course I charge for it. It became the certification program, the first 60 days certification program. I I charged for it. And I had a team that was paying to be on my team was super committed. It's not just a network, right? That's a franchise that meets every Monday. That's perfect. These are all entrepreneurs, highest quality, and I was coaching them one to one. But just on a Monday, so I had Tuesday to Friday, I had free time now. The business was still running, not just running, but it was scaling across countries.
Dana Dowdell 19:33
Were you able to work with that large client?
Simon Serevino 19:37
No, no, no. The next day they hired somebody else. They don't they don't wait.
Dana Dowdell 19:44
Sure. But it was obviously a good lesson for like it was sounds like it was a pivotal moment for you and your business like holy shit. I have to do something or else I can't keep up.
Simon Serevino 19:57
Yes. And I remember it too. Tuesday I see that, that that deal number, the number, right, I see that number and I know that I didn't get that deal. Ah, yeah, that motivated me to do stuff faster.
Russ Harlow 20:12
But tell me this would have been worse if you were dishonest with yourself. And you said, oh, yeah, I can do it. And then you couldn't fulfill your commitment that would have that could have destroyed your business.
Simon Serevino 20:28
Yeah, we'd have a heart attack by now.
Dana Dowdell 20:33
We're very glad you didn't and that you're here with us.
Simon Serevino 20:36
Yeah, I think that's the only you know, when people asked me, Simon, what's the short term risk in your business, long term risk, etc. I say liquidity and heart attack. That's it. It's pretty simple. Stay liquid, and don't have a heart attack.
Dana Dowdell 20:56
So you've built this, you know, looking at your website, you have this amazing team of, of coaches, or people that work on your team. And, and you say they all have superpowers, which I think is such a neat way to describe the people that work work with you. How did you, you know, you talked about how you found people that were just as committed, as you were, how did you start building out that network and finding these people? And what things do you look for?
Simon Serevino 21:29
So I have a network, this loose network, right. And we had around 10-12 years of experience together. So I knew who would last first. These were the people I onboard at first the core team. Today, it's people read the book strategy, Sprint's and then they've arrived me an email is it this thing is incredible. I am at insert, big, big consultancy here. I'm a partner, I'm, I'm going solo next year, can I become one of your coaches. So now there are people from the outside who know what we do. And they like it. And the values resonate with them, they want to go solo, and they want to de risk the first solo year, which I think is smart. And they say, Hey, here's this thing, he has this thing built out. It's boring for me. And it will take me three years to build all these tools. Because there are 274 tools in this great university. And so many coaches are amazing at coaching. And they find it very boring. To build the tools, you know, it's a technical thing as strategy advisor, you know, they are intellectually stimulated by, you know, scenario analysis, competitive analysis, how can we find scaling, in which countries, these are all very stimulating questions for them to do with the team, but to sit down and to create spreadsheets, or to code, dashboards for the clients, they find it very boring, too technical. And they are in their 50s. They are not interested in being on the computer a lot. They want great clients and big problems and solve them. These are the kinds of spring coaches that I've seen your senior advisors. And so they say, I can de risk my first year. I can start with something that is already a brand and has already done all the boring work. The only question is okay, now I have to meet Simon and see if I like him. So they hop on a call. They meet me some like me, and then we start. So that's that's how it works now, but the beginning was literally I created an online course. 60 days course this is how we do stuff. This happens in Week Zero, week one, week two, week three, this happens when they say this, when they have this problem, you pull module seven F but if they are in this industry, then you have to do seven G so I had built it out, like McDonald's that for consultancy. And then and then I charged for that. And I coached them every Monday, every Monday. And this is up until today. It's the same Monday meeting every Monday we come together all coaches come to me we discuss all clients, their marketing numbers, sales numbers, operations number of this week. That's the weekly dashboard in the strategist prints method.
Russ Harlow 24:42
I am wondering, it sounds like you've made some great decisions along the way. Probably that were instrumental in your success. I'm guessing having having that coach early on who got you to look at things differently was probably a great decision. What are some others as you look back, you know Even as a recommendation for people who are, you know, just starting out or maybe they're struggling, they're just trying to tread water. What are some decisions that made a huge difference for you along the way, and these last 21 years.
Simon Serevino 25:16
Following my heart has been the most important thing. And now it sounds so easy. I'm in my 40s, when you get to a specific age, you start knowing your heart and then hearing your heart. It's tougher in the 20s and 30s for many people, because you cannot hear that song. But I will do right now, even earlier, absolutely. Following my heart. I was always, you know, rational and this this spreadsheet and the six months, etc, I will do much earlier, I would jump in much earlier now. Whenever you have clarity, go for it. If you don't have clarity, okay with that, if you have clarity. Do it. I think that's, that's what I will do right now. Even following even more my heart, that it's easy to say afterwards, right?
Dana Dowdell 26:15
Does it feel easy now to be in business? You know, I think our our target listener is someone who's in like their first couple years of business or who are really struggling. And Russ and I were commiserating before just how hard business can be some time. So like, have you gotten to the point where it feels easy?
This is a great question. And I have found now a steady state of joy while running the business, which is completely new for me. And when I say Joy, I mean, you know, I wake up in the morning, I'm happy. Then I serve the whole day, the business. And then in the evening, whatever happened, I'm happy. So that's what I call joy or fulfillment. And it's now a steady flow. Now what happens those eight hours is a roller coaster. But that roller coaster doesn't scare me anymore. So for example, I lost $20,000 A couple of weeks ago, because I invested them in Luna. And turns out that was a very bad idea. And so I learned about my investment system, I improved my investment system, I have changed my checklist about the due diligence. But it didn't bother me overnight anymore, because I have a system now for how I take decisions. So in my business, if there is a market with bad sales, it doesn't really bother me as a person. I don't sleep bad. I'm not less fun with my kids when we play or less present at dinner. That doesn't happen anymore. Because I what I trust the process. So I have a very specific week. And I can tell you exactly what will happen next week, because that process is solid. And that gives me gives me safety gives me trust that whatever the markets throw at me, you know broken supply chains, recession, stagnations upheavals, civil unrest, a war 600 kilometers from me, all these things are happening. But I am super calm, super focused. I know exactly Monday morning, I will do two hours of content. And then in the in the afternoon, I meet the coaches, we go through the clients, we will solve everything because we have the tools. I know that then we have a meeting where we set up the focus for the week. I know that on Thursday, we have a meeting where people will tell me all the numbers, the analytics team, I know that on Friday, we will close the weekly sprint we will learn from it we will see the life dashboard, our own one marketing number says numbers operations numbers, whatever there is negative there. I know that I that we know how to solve it. And then on Friday, we will close the week and we will set the next focus for the next week. And since these chunks are so small, my team is always able to solve them and so they will go as a motivated into next week. So is it easy? Absolutely not. Broken supply chains. The purchasing power is going down. We couldn't be in a worst in a situation that is worse than this one. We have everything everything being a mess out there. Everything But you asked me is it easy? I told you I trust the process. I don't trust anything happening in the markets, they are a mess. And, and don't get me started with with politics or policy because it's all a mess. But as an entrepreneur, I know that I, I know exactly what I will tackle on Monday on Tuesday on and I know that these meetings, they flow into each other. So because what we were what we, what we tackle here, will flow into the next and they that next meeting can work with it with flow into the Thursday, I know what we do on Thursday and the Friday. Now I don't know the content of next week. Because something will blow up between now and next week. That's how the world operates. And something like Luna will have it. And then three of our clients call me on Sunday night. Yeah, I know how we will tackle that on Monday. I don't know the content, but I trust the process. Does that answer your question?
Russ Harlow 31:09
So you know, we're talking about mistakes and learning from those mistakes. And you just gave us a good example. Is there one that you could share that maybe stands out as a pivotal moment in your journey as an entrepreneur and in your business?
Simon Serevino 31:24
Oh, how many do you want? I had my I had my bitcoin on sales years, which turns out to be a huge fraud. Oh, may I do so many mistakes all the time. The only thing is I have a process where I can capture that. So I write down also what is my assumption. And so I know that sometimes I have did my due diligence process was not precise enough when I think about investments. And so the last months have been really honing in and, and refining and tightening up my due diligence process. Other mistakes and mistakes all the time, I do hiring mistakes, hiring the wrong people, then they stick around forever. I hire the right people, and then I lose them after three months, because my onboarding process was not tight enough. And these are the big mistakes, and then the small mistakes all the time I picked the wrong CRM every year, and then we don't use it. And then we have to buy the new one. And there are so many mistakes. Everything every cent that I have ever spent in marketing was a mistake. And so I learned after 10 years that I should just not spend the marketing. And that was the best learning ever. And now all our clients, they reduce their marketing expenditures by 90% when they work with us, because we show them what to do that costs nothing and has much more impact. So yeah, marketing, every cent has been a mistake.
Dana Dowdell 33:01
It sounds like you are I think mistakes can be paralyzing for business owner, right? Like if you make a mistake, and you're like, it can just kind of send you into this paralyzing state where you don't know how to come out of it. So like, but you sound like you just you're like, Yep, it's just a blip in time. It's a point in time, and we're moving past it.
So any process of exploring the territory, that's how I explore the territory. That's why I know more than others because I try more stuff. It's that simple. The more you try, the more you know, and then later on people will will ask you to advise them on that. And how do I learn things by trying out staff. And that's, that's why you you book somebody as an advisor, because they gone they've gone that path, they have done some mistakes, they found something out, and then they're credible. And to tell you really okay, this is not working, this is working. This is this is how we do it. That's actually it's, it's my main asset, if you want that I do so many mistakes, but quickly. And so I these are not mistakes that pop up after a year. So in the week, I know that this is wrong. I change it. I learn from it. And then it becomes actually the acid becomes a new module in this print University literally this thing about the marketing mistakes. This is one thing that our clients always say, oh my god, Simon, I've cut my marketing costs by 90% as a fresher, and I said no, it's not sure. It's not sure. I would never have done that. Everybody tells me I should pay for ads. And so I just found out because yeah, the ads weren't working.
Russ Harlow 35:05
Okay, so Wow. And I'm curious and how that stretches across industries as well. Because I think we we talk to marketers all the time we talk to, you know, people, you know, there's, there's got to be ways to improve it and taking the chances, I think, measured, measured chance, I think, is it right? Just don't take your entire bank account and throw it at something, hey, I'm gonna test this out. But really taking those opportunities and looking for chances to be different, and to stand out in your market are probably some of the biggest things we can do.
Simon Serevino 35:42
Yeah, that's a great point, this size of the experiment. So in the strategist prints book, you will find exactly the blueprints, the checklist of how to run those experiments. And that's exactly so traditional management would have you put in? Let's, what's the name of is it CNN plus? Or what was it that that cost 300 million, and then it lasted a week. So that's exactly how you don't want to run stuff. You want to be in experiments that are around $100. And it takes you three days to invalidate or validate your hypothesis. That's ideal. And that's how that's the strategy is prints metal. And we explain that it's the scientific methods applied to business in the scientific method, every scientist knows whatever you think is an assumption. You have to write down the assumption, and then everybody will go and invalidate the assumption. If they can't invalidate it, it becomes a hypothesis. If then you test in again, in experiments and it stands those experiments, then it becomes a theory. Now you are onto something. Now we are talking. And so a theory can become even later on an algorithm or a formula. That means it always works. And now we have something solid. But that's the process. Right assumption invalidation theory. That's the process also in business. So the Masters ours, for example, Tim Ferriss, who found out the title of his book, by by putting $100 in a Google ad, with three different titles. And basically three days later, he knew this title is better than the other two titles, and it became a best seller. And that's, in a nutshell, how you run experiments. The question is, how small can you do? What is your assumption? How fast can you test it? What's the minimum budget you can put in there? And for us, the golden rule is shorter than three days is the experiment. So and by doing that, you'll never waste more than 100 bucks. And that's that's roughly how you should run experiments, and you run multiple of them per week. That makes the difference. The teams that win, are teams that explore more territory in a disciplined way.
Dana Dowdell 38:26
And I'm assuming you unpack all of this in the book and through your strategy, Sprint's program, right,
Simon Serevino 38:32
Exactly. So in the book, people will find the foreword, written by one of our clients, Anthony Annarino, who when he started, you know, he's the guy when the NASDAQ needs sales training, they call him and so he knows his stuff. But his business was very dependent on him. So he needed more systemization. Right, having operations, marketing and sales being a system that works also independent from him. And so he did the sprint, it worked so well that he won't that he said, Yes, when I asked him o write the foreword. And so he starts with that forward about his experience. And then every chapter is one big problem, the marketing problem, the Client Onboarding problem, the sales problem, the hiring problem, and it there is the voice of our customers who tell which problem they had, how they were struggling, then what did they try the work and then how they applied the methods and how they had their breakthrough. So it's a very practical book. And I think it's a bargain in terms of an investment of 20 bucks into something that can easily easily double your your business. If you just use the blueprints that are in there. I think you can improve your business in on many levels.
Dana Dowdell 39:52
And where can people find you buy the book? Get connected?
Simon Serevino 39:57
So the book, yeah, grab the book on Amazon and leave us a review it's called strategy sprints and air review would would mean a lot to me into Amazon and you find us on strategy Sprint's dot com and everywhere if you put the word strategy Sprint's somewhere in the internet, we pop up.
Russ Harlow 40:20
I just want to say thank you. I've gotten a lot out of our conversation today and really appreciate it. And I think if you want more, I think you've made it simple strategy spreads is everywhere. You also have another podcast. So if our listeners want to go and get a little bit more of you there, they can check you out there because you have like over 400 episodes or something. And I think that I'm going to I want to be a listener myself because I really enjoy our time today. Thanks for stopping by the podcast. Thanks for sharing with our listeners. Thanks to our listeners for being here today. If you want more from Simon You can check him out all the all the links will be in our in our show notes. You can find him at strategy sprints.com And you can find us at it's just business podcasts on all the places. Remember, it's not personal. It's just business.
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